So, first I have always lived here in Australia.
So when I hear of things from the USA like, someone losing fingers on their hand and then having to decide which fingers he wants re-attached because he doesn't have enough money to get them all re-attached. I think WTF and this is total BS. Then I hear of things like people having part(?) of their doctors visit cost refund refused. WTF? Why have insurance at all??
Is it really that bad???
So the rich get doctors care but the poor suffer??
in many cases, the "poor" get no care at all
the "middle class" are the ones that get partial care
QuoteWhy have insurance at all??
second biggest scam in the history of mankind
ok - maybe third :P
If there was no such thing as "Campaign contributions" more than half the crap that goes on WOULD CEASE TO EXIST!!!!
Why do people over ther put up with it? Why don't people rally together and force the government to change?
this "occupy" movement is about as close as they've come
and - that's probably about as far as they'll get, too
notice - it has had no real effect
there is a lot of big money involved so, if you did start to actually make a chage.....
1) you'd be labeled a terrorist and disappear
2) you'd just disappear - kinda like jimmy hoffa
Dave, actually the "poor" and those on welfare do get good medical coverage via Medicaid.
But as you said its the middle class that gets the partial care.
:P
yah...
i was thinking that, if you went to prison as a terrorist, you'd probably get good health care
Quote from: dedndave on April 16, 2012, 04:31:59 AM
:P
yah...
i was thinking that, if you went to prison as a terrorist, you'd probably get good health care
From what I have seen in the media, it appears that terrorist get better health care than most in the US.
The US health system seems so corrupt it is just a joke.
I think the general drift is that the medical lobby is so powerful in the US and that well wired into Congress that there is little chance of breaking their financial scam on taxpayers. The nod seems to be to go to Cuba to get cheap health care if you are not rich in the US.
For most of the rest of the western world, health care is not directly money based and while it has been scammed from time to time, generally it works OK and is within reasonable cost ranges. To this extent US taxpayers are being fed bullsh*t about the costs, if much poorer countries can do it effectively (Cuba) then it can be done by a country with the resources the US has. The reason why it has not is political, not financial.
my health plan is easy - don't get sick because i can't afford it
works pretty well
Z is a different subject
I'm a medicine doctor in Brazil. Corruption is the biggest disease here. Our government doesn't apply everything it can, and it can do a lot better.
Quote from: AParsons on April 16, 2012, 01:51:58 AM
So, first I have always lived here in Australia.
So when I hear of things from the USA like, someone losing fingers on their hand and then having to decide which fingers he wants re-attached because he doesn't have enough money to get them all re-attached. I think WTF and this is total BS. Then I hear of things like people having part(?) of their doctors visit cost refund refused. WTF? Why have insurance at all??
Is it really that bad???
So the rich get doctors care but the poor suffer??
Health care generally isn't "free" anywhere, in places like the UK and Canada you pay for it with higher taxes on everything. And regressive taxes like VAT which disproportionately impact the poor.
Many people don't have health insurance. Either due to cost, or it not being paid for by an employer. It used to be a choice, ObamaCare supposedly forces participation, we'll see if that is remotely constitutional, they can't figure if the penalty is a tax or a fine, but costs have still risen significantly. Basically because those who pay carry the weight for those that don't. ie the middle class pay for themselves and the indigent.
Health care insurance, like car insurance, has deductables to reduce the premium costs. Wreck your car expect the first $500 to come out your own pocket, need medical care expect to pay the first $1000-$1500 depending on your plan. Insurance is designed to cover uncertainty.
US emergency rooms have to treat all comers, those paying for treatment have to carry the weight of those who don't. Yeah, they might not sew your limbs back on, but they will stop you from dieing. The gang members shooting each other seem to get treatment without paying for it, and I'm sure some people get their limbs reattached too, or nails pulled out of their skulls. The idea that the US leaves accident victims to die in the street, is just a crock.
I've lived under both UK and US systems, you are going to get suckier, slower care in the UK where it's "free", which is why there's always been private health care providers and insurance there too. The UK has "free" dental care, seen the teeth on your average UK resident?
Bottom line, health care costs money, yours or someone elses.
Quote from: hutchThe nod seems to be to go to Cuba to get cheap health care if you are not rich in the US.
Working great for Chavez. Cheap != Effective. That said, doesn't some 90% of US health care costs come from futile attempts to delay the reaper a few months?
They solve some of this in the UK by giving people with 4 months to live appointments 6 months in the future, or placing them on waiting lists.
one major problem is...
the pharmaceutical companies are owned by the same rich-ass-basturds that own the insurance companies
We have posted about the idiotic nonsense called the American health care system many times in the past here on the Masm board. The fact is it is a truly moronic system based on insurance company greed! Some 30% of health care costs here in the US is waste. Causes for the waste: overtreatment of patients, the failure to coordinate care, the administrative complexity of the health care system, burdensome rules and fraud.
Quote from: clive on April 16, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
Yeah, they might not sew your limbs back on, but they will stop you from dieing[sic].
Lack of health insurance causes some 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. There are millions of Americans who do not qualify for government provided health insurance and the very high costs make it impossible for millions of others to afford. When charity or uncompensated care is not available they simply have to go without needed medical treatment until often it's too late. Hard to believe such things happen here in the States but it does every day.
Quote
Health care generally isn't "free" anywhere, ....
I was born in Hungary and health care use to be FREE there. :lol
Just saying though - not being a commy - :green
health Insurance here used to cover about 50% of the cost. So lets say your bill is $1200. Out of that the company doesn't cover 50% of that.
My folks with 3 health insurance's used to still have to pay about 10-20%. You know stuff like Heart Lung Bypass Machine during heart surgery. Oh and anesthetic was a non covered option. Bypass surgery cost us around $35,000 in 84 and $35,000 again in 92. With 3 insurances.
What I like now is that the guy who stole 1 billion dollars is now Florida's Governor. Rick Scott. Yup, lets keep the crooks where we can see them... elected office. Then hear the Repubs complain about their taxes. SF.
Yes, Rick Scott ripped off the people of Florida but they still elected him and though I sympathize with the situation in the US, they made their bed etc... The sad thing is that most people in the US want health care reform but when they are presented with a plan they switch sides quick enough to make your head spin. I mean just look at the useless plan that Congress finally came up with under Obama, he had a real plan for health care reform that was crippled by the politics of polarized pluralism that has made the political system there dysfunctional.
The stark reality is that because of its two party system the US is doomed to failure on any major initiative that would actually help the people. Since any two party system will eventually stifle moderate opinions and push both sides farther apart the end result is almost always that one party will do anything up to and including hurting their own country in order to make sure their opponent does not succeed. Because of the staggered elections in the US any party can stop a long term initiative from being implemented by just delaying it long enough to allow their propaganda to filter through to the electorate. Even a good policy can be discredited as long as it is never allowed to be put into effect, after all its difficult to prove something would work if it never gets implemented. It has become the job of the opposition not to be a voice of sober second thought but to ensure that the current administration (regardless of party) is ineffective and inept. It is difficult to get elected if you allow your opponent to actually do something constructive that leaves the people better off because of it, better just to make sure that no administration can improve the situation and you'll have a shot at power.
The days of "building a better America" are over, they have been replaced by interest groups pushing their agenda at the expense of everyone else, no one willing to compromise and no voices of moderation are tolerated. It's a pretty depressing situation there and it's reflected in the outlook of Americans, it brings to mind a poll I saw about the differences between Canada and the US's opinions about the fairness of the economy, nearly 2 thirds of Americans do not believe the burden is shared fairly but consistently vote against and belittle those candidates who want to address the problem.
Quote from: Globescan BBC pollA stark contrast exists in North America between the US and Canada in terms of people's perceptions of how fairly economic benefits and burdens have been shared in the past few years. Americans increasingly say that benefits and burdens have not been shared fairly (65%, up 11 points since 2009), and their views are now closely aligned with the global picture (61% for the 22-country global average). In Canada the picture is radically different, as it is among the very few countries (four in total) where a majority believes that benefits and burdens have been shared fairly in the past few years—55 per cent, a proportion that has remained relatively stable since 2008. This is 22 points above the global average (33%), and the third highest percentage in the survey.
Donkey,
Things are much worse. Now with the republicans requiring 61 votes in the senate to get anything passed. Unlimited funds in politics, mostly on the Republican side. The supreme court more right than neutral with 2 openly going to republican political meetings. i think it was thomas, and kennedy if I remember correctly.
finally i find one thing China is sharing with other developed countrys ,
hasn't seen the thread i thought the China Health Care system is the suckiest in the world ,
uncounterable people died of can't pay the high treatment costs
but now i know that people in the world are the same